Hello dear audience! This is Jacqui, writer and researcher of “Under the Sycamore Tree.” Here are our show notes for our Episode 3: “Families Live Here.” 

Possible triggers in this episode include intimate partner violence, HIV+ / AIDS, police violence, rape, unfair arrest, hiv+ / aids, trans-youth abuse. The organizer and organization featured in this episode is Charrice Talbert, Treasurer and Board President of PETAL. Promoting Empowerment Through Awareness for Lesbian and Bisexual Women (PETAL) is an organization founded in 2011, whose mission is to achieve social, economic, and gender justice for all women in Belize with a particular focus on lesbian and bisexual women. This is done through an advocacy and empowerment model, based on a human rights approach, for relevant engagement within and outside of Belize. PETAL can be found online via their website, their Equality Fund webpage, and their Facebook page.

Our Producer, Dave-Ann, first interviewed Charrice and Stephanie in late 2021, and Carla’s conversation with Charrice happened in March 2022. 

I hope you connect with these texts and enjoy the episode even further! Sincerely, 

Jacks.

Transcript

EPISODE OPENER

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;26;06, Charrice Talbert: I remember another activist saying this, that lesbians have it easier than trans, right? Lesbians have it easier than men. And I say as long as you're a marginalized or you’re a vulnerable people, there is no more or less than; you’re all in that box which is that you are treated different.

[Act 1] Introduction

00;00;26;07 - 00;01;01;09  [SCRIPT] Carla MooreThis episode is a Sankofa circle within the Sankofa link of this podcast series. Join us in this concentric formation, as I, alongside Charrice Talbert of PETAL, guide us through the life cycle of the families in our movement - queer families, specifically. Welcome to the Under the Sycamore Tree podcast. This episode, “Families Live Here,” features a conversation I had with Charrice in 2022. 

00;01;01;11 - 00;01;28;11, Carla: PETAL, Charrice’s organization, stands for Promoting Empowerment Through Awareness for Lesbian and Bisexual womxn. They are based in Belize City and they are Belize’s first! LBQ organization. Their mission is to foster social, economic, and gender justice for womxn - especially lesbian and bisexual womxn. Charrice was the founding Treasurer for PETAL, and is now the President of PETAL’s board of directors. 

Trigger warning

00;01;28;14 - 00;02;04;27, Carla: We'll be discussing topics that some listeners may find triggering, including abortion, domestic violence, HIV AIDS, sexual reproductive health, mental health and class. We understand that these topics can be difficult to hear about, and we want to remind our listeners that it's okay to take a break. 

Carla’s Welcome!

Carla: Wi deh ya pon di veranda, you deh ya pon di veranda, open yuh heart and yuh mind. Cock up yuh, and make wi have ah good time. 

[Act 2] Defining Family 

[SCRIPT] Carla: So, mek wi start at the beginning beginning… 

00;02;04;29 - 00;02;30;08, Carla: How do you even define family? And how do queer families come to be? What might be taken for granted in what we assume a family can be, and what might this foreclose for our lives? 

[CONVERSATION] Carla: So the episode is…is built up around a discussion of queer families. And you know, the first thing that I'm actually going to ask is what is your definition of family?

00;02;30;08 - 00;02;54;05, Carla continues: because I think that we have so many definitions of family. And I think that ummm… queer folks do a lot of work to expand that, expand it beyond the way that people usually think of family. But then also some queer folks, how are queer folks fitting inside of that original definition?

00;02;54;07 - 00;02;59;12, Charrice: So for us family is, what, who ever is your support. 

00;02;59;15 - 00;03;12;05, Carla: So that… that leads me into the next question, which is, was this always your personal definition of family or did your definition of family shift over time?

00;03;12;07 - 00;03;38;17, Charrice: It shifted over time simply because, just as we all are, we were never exactly here where we are. There are some things that that were a part of what's already what we learned more well that we some bad habits too, and things like that. So it shifted over time because I (once) thought that your family had to be biological. 

00;03;38;24 - 00;03;39;09, Carla (speaking alongside Charrice…) Yes. Yes. 

00;03;39;12 - 00;04;20;10 Charrice Continues: Right. And when I think of family, it's most of the time [unintelligible] family, sibling, grandfather, grandmother, ahm, ahm first or second cousin, and that’s it, right? So, yes, it has shifted over time. Ahm. Since we normalizing what we normalize for so long, right? Ahm. But yes, it has shifted it all time. I never always thought that family was or could be extended, could be blended, could be anything other than. 

00;04;20;13 - 00;04;46;06,  [SCRIPT] Carla Do you hear what else is in Charrice answer? There is no right answer to this, no answer that should be policed, whether by straight folx, queer folx, or anybody else for that matter.

[Act 3] Interdependence 

[SCRIPT] Carla: This also extends to how Charrice came to learn about her own sexuality. Coming into this knowledge for Charrice also came with the knowledge of how her sexuality impacts her family. 

00;04;46;09 - 00;05;23;25, Carla: The reality of this impact, that impact exists and does happen, does not mean it is a negative impact, but a reflection of our interdependence; unearthing and composting the myth of the individual queer, separate, apart, and alone. 

[CONVERSATION] Carla, I'm glad that you, you said “denormalizing”, right, because I want us to go there. So your organization is about promoting empowerment and awareness for lesbian and bisexual womxn.

00;05;23;27 -  00;06;02;05, Carla continues: And unfortunately, when we think, not we, when some people think of LGBT people, when they think of lesbians and bisexual womxn, they don't put them in a family format. A lot of time queer people you're just imagined to be single, or that they're dating forever. [space] How do queer families form (unintelligible) how unnu queer person end up in a family? What is a queer family? How do queer families form?

00;06;02;07 - 00;06;53;17, Charrice: Over time, we realized that for  persons family and… and… and… how they come about is just whomever that person is comfortable with or most comfortable with that, they want to, if they already have children, share [space] that space with that person to be a part of their lives, not just them, but their children’s lives and looking at that on a long term base as well. Not just for the now, for the sex, for things like that; but I want you to be the other person. Not the man, not the father because they already maybe have a father or a deadbeat father or no  father ‘cause yah know, where are you? Because, you know, this is life. Lots of things happen. Some of them as well.. 

00;06;53;17 - 00;07;19;01 Charrice continues: it's formed out of relationships that kinda went bad. And so they just want to explore another part of their sexuality and… if, in fact, this is something that [space] they want. So. I kind of have a little bias against that because I'm kinda like… well, how can you just… tryyy? Try it? 

00;07;19;07 - 00;07;20;27, Carla (speaking alongside Charrice) Yeah…

00;07;20;29 - 00;07;39;25, Charrice continues: this is not like (unintelligible), or like rice and peas, or how can you just try it ya know? … It’s not a flavor…right. But I’ve come to the realiz(ation) that people, a lot of people I've engaged that they have never thought about being in a relationship with another woman.

00;07;39;25 - 00;07;41;24, Carla (speaking alongside Charrice) Yeah.

00;07;41;26 - 00;08;21;18, Charrice continues: Even myself in my younger self, in my younger self, I always looked at womxn in a different way, even though I have children – ahm my son is 22, he’s going to be 23 years old, and my daughter turn 19 (unintelligible) – and it’s not to say, to say really, really  and truly that I was pressured to have a boyfriend, I was pressured into… I noticed from an early age that [space] I found womxn very (unintelligible) not in terms of just looking at them and that they're pretty, in terms of I’m thinking things …

00;08;21;18 - 00;08;46;00, Charrice continues: …and I'm feeling things when I look at… but I also have this feeling with men! Carla: right? Charrice: y’a know? And so, when, now, over time we’ve learned, as well as some needs assessment, some of our sessions that we’ve had with womxn, you will learn that, to some, like, you don’t nearly see that people can try it and like it…

00;08;46;02 - 00;09;32;09, [SCRIPT] Carla: Living through interdependence allows Charrice to strengthen her family, and by extension, our concept of queer families more generally. This includes being accountable to children. 

Carla: Focusing on queer families refracts our focus. Taking queer families seriously means that we need to more holistically understand how oppressions - regular oppressions which we think we know, move. This takes us back to Queer families deepening our fluency with social dynamics - equipping us with spatial, concentric, networked understandings of the reality of  the interdependent lives we live.  

Colin’s Plane

00;09;32;11 - 00;09;44;14 [ARCHIVAL AUDIO] Colin Robinson That's the amazing lesson that, you know, young people in Egypt and elsewhere in the world are beginning to take this different vision, a vision of how we change governance.

00;09;44;16 - 00;09;48;02, Colin continues: We've even seen it in places like Jamaica and in Guyana.

00;09;48;04 - 00;09;59;23, Colin continues: The young people who across sexual orientations have a vision of nationhood and of inclusion that surpasses the vision ahm, of their their parents and grandparents.

00;09;59;25 - 00;10;09;21, [CONVERSATION] Carla: I love that you bring that up, because, as a woman, once you have a child, anything you doing after that, the child comin’ whitchu. 

00;10;10;13 - 00;10;23;24 Carla continues: If never had the the opportunity to try a relationship with another woman before, then di pikney comin’ whitchu to try the relationship with the other woman and yeah, so people might like it…

00;10;23;26 - 00;10;46;16, Charrice: My partner and I have been together since my daughter was three months old. And so, and she's more masculine presenting. And when she was growing up, when she said “dad” it was to that person because, for her looking at that person, it looks different from mommy, so, ya’ know, it’s a dad. And then people say, “you know what, who’s your dad?” 

00;10;46;16 - 00;11;08;05, Charrice continues: and then she’s say the name And they’re like, that’s not your dad, that’s another woman. And she said… so I had to explain to her that well, you can have two mommies. You can have twice all the love you get from Mommy. Imagine everything you can get from Mommy, you can get it times two. You have it better than these people cause you get it…

00;11;08;07 - 00;11;15;24, Charrice continues: …times two. Carla: Yes. Charrice continues: But how do you how do you begin to explain this to a six year old? …

00;11;15;26 - 00;11;50;11, Carla continues: And that this of coming out and becoming visible and how even though it's a public secret everybody know, uttering that … for yourself, takes on a different meaning it… it… ya know… it… which, inside of a family setting, a parent coming out is kind of the family coming out, in a way. There is a way that the parent publicly acknowledging that they are queer. … 

00;11;50;13 - 00;12;08;19, Carla continues: …do you find that that has an impact on the family? Do you find that, for families where the parents are… not visible, the experience is different for a family where one or both members of that that parents unit are open about being queer.

00;12;08;22 - 00;12;39;15, Charrice: It’s a bit of both. Because if you haven’t shared this with your children or your child… then that child is more prone to a lot bullying, bad things hap-, occurring, because they can’t defend it, they can’t speak to it because they don't… And maybe some of what is being said, because we know that children can be very hurtful and cruel too with what they would say… Carla: absolutely…

00;12;39;18 - 00;13;06;04, Charrice continues …And so we've found that it's a (unintelligible) because some of the children do suffer more in terms of like the bullying, its just like a whole level of bullying that occurs now. When we were younger, you go home and you say someone bullying you and your parents would say “don’t come back here crying” because they don; Very well, mind you said, somebody bully Europeans, they don't come back here praying because they don't teach you to be a softie right? Carla:  Right.. Charrice: to stand up and speak for yourselves and things like that … 

00;13;06;04 - 00;13;30;22, Charrice continues: but children now have been, some of them have been taught a bit differently, and you can not defend what you don’t know. Children will always be fearful of the parents, and they won't see certain things, even if that child kind of has figured that this is what is occurring. You won’t stand up to your mother and say, “why you don’t just say that (unintelligible) a lady,” or “why you nah just say that you did just sleep with (unintelligible)?” you won’t do that, right? so…

00;13;30;24 - 00;14;10;12, Charrice continues: …it it its (unintelligible) it is a bit of both where, where it concern them. And ahm, it kinda is sad and frustrating because we cannot move forward in having things be better if we ourselves don't want to get in that enough uncomfortable seat at some point. You know, if you've chosen that this is how you want to leave, then (space) then you want to live this way.

00;14;10;17 - 00;14;38;20, Charrice continues: …And so you've chosen that, then I know it's going to take time and and you will do certain things, but you (space) can’t not, not address it at some point. And and then you're living unfair to your child that has to constantly go through the bullying, the ridicule in spaces because you you are uncomfortable.

00;14;38;23 - 00;15;11;18, Carla: There is also the challenge is that you face that no have nothing fi do with being a part of a queer family. So I’m thinking now for you, your organization focuses on lesbian and bisexual womxn. So I want to ask you, in terms of employment equality in Belize, a lot of times, we find that households that are headed by two womxn are more likely to experience poverty because of employment inequality.

00;15;11;20 - 00;15;19;25, Carla continues: Right. And I wanted to find out if is that is something that you're experiencing in your context, that a two woman household … 

00;15;19;28 - 00;15;57;05, Carla continues: … Will… ha- Charrice: be deprived of a lot of resources. Yes. Yes, it is. Because… a simple thing is that a lot of the woman-led households, unfortunately, it's persons that are making minimum wage. Carla: Yeah. Charrice: And so two people making minimum wage, having four or five children with no father supporting you know, all these bills to pay, school, you know, keeping food on the table, the roof over the head ….   

00;15;57;05 - 00;16;39;25, Charrice … It just you know, as as black people, Caribbean people, we say “wi rob Peter fi pay Paul” Carla: YES… Charrice: you know you don't have that luxury of just spending it. I need to put some towards the next bill that's going to be due next week and things like that and then the child comes home and says ma ya know teacher seh wi have to bring dis or if I not paying the school fees I can not tek the test, you know? So yes, two womxn households they do the minimum wage and minimum wage in Belize is $3.33 a min- an hour, so that's like less than no that's U.S. ….

00;16;39;27 - 00;16;41;16, Charrice continues: … U.S. You it's $1 dolla fifty cents an hour 00;16;41;22 - 00;16;43;21, Carla (alongside): yes

00;16;43;24 - 00;17;09;16 Charrice continues: …and we’re not talking about lavish, we’re talking about eating chicken foot and rice or corned beef and rice, you know, or plantain and rice. Yes. And and and you are not able to do that. And then a lot of persons don't own their own home and things like that. 

[Act 4] PETAL as Organizers

00;17;09;19 - 00;17;42;15, [SCRIPT] Carla: It was important for this holistic approach to inform even the founding of PETAL. And it also governed PETAL’s approach to establishing a safe space. 

[CONVERSATION] Carla: one of the the moments in queer life that’s a rough moment is if somebody has a hospital and it gets to the point where family only… family only can go to the room. 

00;17;42;18 - 00;17;48;27, Carla continues: In Belize … is it (unintelligble)... they can’t go in (Carla reacting to Charrice shaking her head. 

00;17;48;29 - 00;18;01;15, Charrice: Cause you're not recognized, the … the … the… the … legislation (unintelligible) understands your spouse to be man or woman, which is husband or wife.

00;18;01;17 - 00;18;09;14, Carla: And that means that things like insurance you can’s (unintelligible).

00;18;09;16 - 00;18;52;06, Charrice: you still can’t. So we've been we've been speaking to the minister both previous and current where it concerns the language, because we've found that the biggest problem is the language. If the language would say person, and not specifically say man woman then you wouldn't have these issues. Because us remember was doing a forum around Social Security and the same thing same sex homes not being able or not only same sex, but homes that are not considered the traditional mom and dad homes. Carla: Yes.

00;18;52;06 - 00;19;26;01, Charrice: You are not allotted or afforded the benefits of that person, even if that person were to leave on the line that says beneficiary, “I want Carla, if Carla Moore is not the husband or the wife, you won't get that because that comes from that legislation, which defines spouse as being husband or a wife.

00;19;26;04 - 00;19;34;08, Carla: …and wife. And husband and wife is of course is determined by biological sex as well on top of everything else. 

00;19;34;08 - 00;19;52;03, Charrice: Exactly. So you're not able to anything because what they say is it's not their fault because they’re going with what the law says and the definition says that. So until the definition changes and says “person” ….

00;19;52;06 - 00;20;02;27, Carla: Then they are supported by the law to continue enacting the law in a way that is exclusive. Charrice agreeing. [light birdsong] 

00;20;02;29 - 00;20;27;14, Charrice: Uhm, I remember another activist saying this, that lesbians have it easier than trans. Carla (alongside): right? Charrice continues: Lesbians have easier than gay men. And I say as long as you're a marginalized or you're a vulnerable people, there is no more or less, you're all in that box, which is that you are treated different. Carla: Yes.

00;20;27;21 - 00;21;02;16, Charrice: And… we found that a lot of womxn, (space) even within,  some within our membership, what we found is a lot of them were… tend to be more bisexual. Carla: Mm Hm. Charrice continues: I recall us having a session and there was a.. a… person that was in it and she said to us, why is the space for lesbians and bisexuals? And I said, What's the issue with that?

00;21;02;16 - 00;21;11;19, Charrice continues: And she said, because she believes that the lesbians should have their own space and bisexuals should have their own space. Carla: Right?

00;21;11;20 - 00;21;59;07, Charrice: So I wanted to get an understanding around why does she think that it requires two different spacing? Carla: Right. Charrice: And so she went on to say, well, you know, bisexuals aren’t really lesbians because, you know, they from time to time engage in intimate affair with men and so they are less  Carla: Yes. Charrice continues: lesbian like. Carla: Right. Charrice continues: And so we realized at that point that there is all about stigmatization, discrimination about right with the core community we are serving and how do we intend to address this? We can’t just openly go at it and and and say you know  “do you believe we should do this or do you believe that we should do that?” We had to … 

00;21;59;07 - 00;22;24;29, Charrice continues: … reevaluate because one of the things that we did before we, the organization went countrywide, and engaged womxn to find out if it made sense to even form an organization for womxn. Because we didn't just want to go off what we were thinking that, well there's none, so we should do something. We wanted for them to tell us that, “yes, we want you to do that.” …

00;22;24;29 - 00;22;44;23, Charrice continues: … and these are the types of things they want us to to deal with. One is the psychosocial support that they can access and have no charge to them. And each person get a minimum of six sessions. Carla: Oh. Wow….

00;22;44;23 - 00;23;13;05, Charrice: Unless the therapist knows that they need more. So that's kind of like the biggest support that we're able to provide them with. Besides that it's just the spaces that we create for them, those spaces for them to be themself, the best you. We pride ourselves with our spaces why we are very picky and choose-y with the con- (unintelligible).

00;23;13;08 - 00;23;46;18, Charrice continues: (unintelligible) … this is not that. When we moved into this location that we have we don't call it our office, it’s called PETAL’s house. When you come in it’s actually like a house. Because we want when you come in here that you feel like you’re at home, that you're comfortable enough that you sit there for the minutes before I speak that, you know, you're just comfortable. …

00;23;46;18 - 00;24;03;15, Charrice continues: … You don't even realize that you are sitting there five because it's almost like you're not stressed out again because you're comfortable within this and you know that what you share with us, you would never hear it from somewhere else. Carla: Yeah.

00;24;03;15 - 00;24;30;00, Charrice: So we pride ourselves with that. And people will tell you that that they cannot say, even when they come into our spaces we engage every single person. It's not the Carla and I … (unintelligible) … just talking …(unintelligible)... and like that. No. We engage every single person so that a person does not feel uncomfortable. It may be your first time engaging this space that we're providing.

00;24;30;02 - 00;25;06;08, Charrice continues: And so you don't know about us, you don't know us. You only know what you heard. Maybe we put up a flier and you saw something that piqued your interest. And so we want when you come into that space, you always have that same impression that we give you when we engage. (space) Carla: yeah. Yeah…. Charrice continues: as I said earlier, when we went around asking should we start an organization or not, there were a lot of concerns that came out of persons, they, some persons were like, “are you going to be another one of so-and-so that just came and and did a survey …

00;25;06;08 - 00;25;49;03, Charrice continues: … And then that’s all we heard from you and then ehm, any time you want anything you come around and then we don’t hear anything and we don’t get invited to anything, we don’t get invited to anything and we can not reach you. And we did not want that. You know, because, when you when you're engaging people you don't know where they are at that point in their lives, you know, and you don't want to be like the straw that broke the camel's back. Carla: Yeah. Charrice continues: We don't ever want to find ourselves in that position. So when we engage persons, you know, if we're not able to provide the support, we go to the extent of finding out where we can access the support that they need.

00;25;49;05 - 00;26;18;12, Carla: Organizations who are doing the work in the region carry the additional responsibility to not… (space, considering…) hurt and disappoint people in the same way that they have been hurt and disappointed in the past. And I think for the queer community, that's one of the things that people carry. You know, you come in with survey, you coming to ask 

00;26;18;12 - 00;27;14;28, Carla continues: … for mi opinion,  you coming to make promise … And at the end of the day I am in the same position before you take (space) forty minutes of my time – Charrice interjects: Like a regulah politician. Carla: Like a regulah politician! You know! That responsibility to your community to understand that when you come and you ask them a question, there has to be an action behind the question or they will begin to doubt you as well. You know? and that is going to affect your organization. (space, light birdsong) 

00;27;15;00 - 00;28;06;25, (space) Carla continues: In our context, we've had some successes, you know. Belize is one of those places where we've had some successes in terms of, ahm, … legal occurrences. But still more work that needs to be done to ensure that families are better included. And when we think about the life span of a family, we're thinking about births as in a new child entering that family. And then we're thinking about death inside of that family, you know, leaving a partner behind. What are some of the things that queer families are having to navigate in terms of… that that part there, the start the birth, a new child entering the family. How can we ensure that parents are represented, able to, you know, like, care for them pickney and take their child as their own? And then also after that, death, when the family loses someone.

00;28;06;27 - 00;29;00;21, Charrice: Being in these same sex unions and having children involved, whether they came into or you want to have a child, there is nothing in place to secure the life, the in between, the death. In terms of two womxn wanting to conceive a child, would have to maybe go through some type of process with a male, which requires some paperwork being drawn where that male signs over all his duties, responsibilities, everything to the person, … or even if its two males, you know, the other biologic person has to sign over allll rights to that child. Carla: yeah. … 

00;29;00;24 - 00;29;30;27, Charrice continues: … and then there is (unintelligible) also not just about rights. It's that both of you won’t be seen as the parent legally either. You don’t have two mothers or two fathers on any birth certificate or anything like that. No. It will… I’m not sure how it happens on the islands. Here, when you both register a child, if the father accompanies you, then you get the father's last name.

00;29;30;29 - 00;30;02;19, Charrice continues: If not, you only get the mother's last name. Right? Yeah. So… ahm, take for example myself. Talbert is not my father’s, that’s my mother’s name Right. So, if only the mother goes to register the child, only the mother's name would go there there. Right. So ahm, let's just say two mothers maybe my child is Talbert and the next person's last name, but those like me….

00;30;02;21 - 00;30;36;04, Charrice continues: You understand? Right? It’s, it's not recognized in the same way as having that surname of the father, right? In terms of benefits you won't be recognized that you have a, a, a husband or you have a wife, same sex. And so you go on and only will receive these things or the other one will receive, not as well, because you both have a child, or the child is sick and so you can’t go …

00;30;36;04 - 00;31;02;10, Charrice continues: get time off. No, those things don't exist. Should one pass away as well, if there was not a will drafted up that says that “I want to meet to Carla Moore x, y, z…” it (won’t) happen because the law does not does not cover ahm, same sex unions and… anything that that comes around (same?) sex. Carla: yeah… right. 

00;31;02;11 - 00;31;28;19, Charrice continues: Right. There is no legislation to address that and so it becomes kinda difficult because we do have some womxn who do want to have children. Biological,  They don't want to adopt. They want to have children, but you’re… concerned because you’re not afforded all the amenities as heterosexual couples do.

00;31;28;21 - 00;31;56;00, Charrice continues: So there there there isn’t really anything other than within same sex relationships. My partner and I have been together for eighteen years and so my daughter knows only that person. But, ahm, she's an adult now because she's 18 and though she can legally replace (unintelligible) her should she choose. But her being a younger child., …

00;31;56;02 - 00;32;28;28, Charrice continues: …there wasn't anything that I would have been able to receive for her, or for person now. There isn’t anything you can receive from (glitch) there is, for example, this thing that when you give birth, ahm, this paper that they give you at the the hospital and it says that you gave birth to one live boy, seven pounds, whatever, and that paper you take to the Social Security and there’s, ahm, I think 300 dollars paid out, well, for giving life. Carla: mmm hmmmm… Charrice continues: right?

00;32;29;05 - 00;33;12;03, Charrice continues: And the mother gets that. And if the mother is not working but the father is the pa gets that. So… in the case of two mothers, none of them would get that if if it's the… other person who is working who is not the biological like Carla (alongside): biological mother… Charrice continues: you know, it’s not going to extend like that. Carla: (sigh…) Lord tek di case and gimme di pillow… 

[SCRIPT] Carla: we wish all you queer families out there peace and strength and guidance, particularly when you find yourself dealing with institutions. [light birdsong] 

00;33;12;05 - 00;33;42;20, [CONVERSATION continues] Charrice: We've had where since COVID, we've done three needs assessments Carla: yeah Charrice continues: with our members to find out where they are. And they are still not where they need to be because, when COVID came, some persons were out of work, like, a lot of them worked in tourism, so working, doing wait staff and things like that. Ahm. And when that two yea-…  when that time came, you know, everything was… Carla: Yup. Charrice continues: closed. …  Carla: Yup.

00;33;42;22 - 00;33;56;04, Charrice: … and they had no support. So you are in the hole you're trying to dig yourself out of a hole, how do you ever get out of the hole when what you’re getting, you’re working like, on call. Carla: Yeah. Yeah.

00;33;56;04 - 00;34;26;28, Charrice: working Friday and Saturday and that’s all the money that you're making. And the bills just keep piling piling piling. So we've done three needs assessment, which makes us know that they’re still not where they need to be. Ahm, they’re not, some of them are still not totally unemployed, but it's as good as unemployed because being on call and not being called other than one or two days for the week can't pay the bills. [light birdsong] 

[Act 5] Stephanie, PETAL Client

00;34;27;00 - 00;34;49;20, [SCRIPT, light atmospheric music] Carla: We also had the pleasure of speaking with one of PETAL’s clients, Stephanie. Here she is speaking to our Producer, Dave-Ann Moses, about her experiences as a queer womxn in Belize, and how PETAL’s specific approach to family informs how they tailor support for their clients and their community. [light atmospheric music continues]

00;34;49;23 - 00;35;26;02, [INTERVIEW, 2021; light atmospheric music continues] Stephanie: …getting a lawyer… for me, so that's a big help for me because I never had the money to… to, ahm, get a lawyer. I would have to maybe just go and maybe just face face face things all by myself, right? And I, I was home one day too…. and she's my friend and she's the one that, ahm, like, introduced me to… to PETAL … 

00;35;26;03 - 00;37;17;00, Stephanie continues: … and tell me things that they could ahm, help me with and things like that. So it's been a big deal for me, you know, having that kind of help. And like how I can build stuff and stuff like that. I try to help them, building stuff for them, you know? And stuff like that. So I feel happy that I could be a part of this, ahm, organization, right? They help me, I help them. (chuckle…) They give me that support that I need (unintelligible) … so I get really, ahm, you know, say (unintelligible)... whenever, sometimes I wouldn't expect that, ahm, I would really like, go through this thing if it wasn't for them in a one sense right. But it happens … so I can't (blame?) a lot. 

Dave-Ann (Podcast Producer, Queerly Stated): I, I'm interested to hear about how do you think the attitudes towards ahm, queer womxn, lesbian and bisexual womxn, have changed over the years in Belize? Stephanie: When I was like, when I first had my first girlfriend, I was … scared because all of my friends, they had boyfriends, right?

00;37;17;03 - 00;39;11;07, Stephanie continues: … And I didn't want them to know… that. So I been hiding that for a while. You know… (?) And … you know, I see men will, would fight with same sex men because they are gay and stuff like that. But now I'm not seeing that too much. From… but still you have men that will allow the guys that is gay to be around with them, right? It's ahm, it’s changing because I guess ahm they see that we're we're only still the same people just that we have different ahm, ahm, different different, different ahm, different… what’s the word to use? Different, ahm, choices… We we we want to make our own choices of who we want to be with so… They shouldn't ahm, have problem with that, cause we don’t have problem with them, right? So, hey… we just have to keep, keep  the good fight (chuckles…). 

Stephanie continues: Me personally didn't go through too much … ahm, hardship with my… ahm, gayness right? So. But you have people that struggles with it. But after they maybe go and be around the right type of people which is like them (?), (glitch, unintelligible) they shouldn't have no problem. But ahm, ‘cause one time you had people that had problems with that type of thing, … 

00;39;11;07 - 00;40;08;01, Stephanie continues: …right? So, ahm, I… I would say I would just  want them to be protected at all times, so that, ahm, nobody hurt them for what they, ahmm, want to do with their sex life. 

Sealing this Episode

[SCRIPT] Carla: The life cycle of queer families, from coming out, to birth, death, rebirth, and regeneration. We connect this Sankofa chain back to the beginning, to end this episode. How do you define family? And who is family… to you? Chosen or not? We hope you sit in this somatic alchemy, sparked by considering queer families in our region; meditating on interdependence. 

[CREDITS] 00;40;08;03 - 00;40;41;28, Carla: This episode was produced by a Rebel Women Lit and Queerly Stated with support from Astrea Lesbian Foundation for Justice, Equality Fund, and Global Affairs Canada. Research and writing by Jacqui Brown, Script Editing and Project Management by Dave-Ann Moses, Editing and Sound Design by Jherane Patmore and Safiyah Chiniere, and Outreach by Ashley Dalley. Remember to head on over to the show notes to find the details of the organizers featured in our episode and Rebelwomenlit.com for additional references. 00;40;42;00 - 00;40;52;01, Carla: Thank you so much for joining me. Your host, Carla Moore, Under the Sycamore Tree …